National Police Association Podcast with Guest, Peter J. Forcelli, ATF Deputy Assist Director (Ret) & NYPD Det
Hi. This is sergeant Betsy Brantner Smith with the National Police Association, and this is the National Police Association podcast. I have a guest today. He has done it all. He has been a street cop.
Betsy Smith:He has been a federal agent. He's been a boss. He's a consultant. He's an author, and, he's had an amazing career that hasn't even slowed down a little bit. So I knew you needed to meet him.
Betsy Smith:Pete Forcelli, welcome to the show.
Peter J. Forcelli:Honored to be here, Betsy. Thanks for having me.
Betsy Smith:So, of course, I have to ask you, the question I ask everybody who's been in law enforcement. Why'd you become a cop?
Peter J. Forcelli:You know, I grew up watching shows like Starsky and Hutch and the FBI and all those shows that were out in the seventies and eighties. And I I had the misconception that police it's just all excitement and fun like you see on TV and that everything gets solved in an hour. But, yeah, I got into the police department at the NYPD at age 20 and, learned how policing really works. A lot more paperwork. I'd say 90% boredom and 10% sheer terror sometimes, but I I loved every minute of it.
Peter J. Forcelli:But, yeah, I fell in love with it from watching TV.
Betsy Smith:I'm so glad to see to hear you say that because that's actually my real answer. When people ask me, I kid in the seventies, I grew up. I watched too much TV. And the cop shows, those guys were the coolest. You know?
Betsy Smith:They had the most fun job. They did the most fun stuff, and it's it's different now. But but it you know, it's still a really fun job. And and so you you started out, you know, as a beat cop, and you worked your way up to homicide. Right?
Peter J. Forcelli:Yeah. I was walked the beat for a couple years. I loved it. If if you would ask me what was the best part of my thirty five year career, I would say that was it. But, yeah, I wound up in a sector car, answering nine one one calls.
Peter J. Forcelli:Love that too. Eventually went to the detective bureau. And then two years into my time as a detective, I I got lucky with some interesting cases. Was asked to go into the Bronx Homicide Task Force, which I thought was gonna be the pinnacle of my career. So always wanted to be a homicide detective just like those people we watched on TV.
Peter J. Forcelli:Right? But it was there. I got some exposure to work in federal cases. But I also saw the difference between the state court system, which in The Bronx was horrendous and was a revolving door of justice where a criminal just came right back out in the street, to see how the feds worked where you take some of those same offenders and send them to prison in other states where they didn't have family visiting them, they were terrified, and they would cooperate. So we were solving all kinds of crazy cases working with the feds, worked with FBI a little bit, DEA, awesome.
Peter J. Forcelli:Loved working with them. And ATF worked with them, probably the most. And I just jumped ship and became a fed in New York. So I worked in New York as an agent for six years, really doing the same work that I was doing as a homicide detective, but with a better bang for the buck when it came to putting bad people in jail for a really long time. And the other thing that happened is we started focusing on, like, people who are misusing guns because everybody wants to blame the gun.
Peter J. Forcelli:The gun it's not the gun. It's the criminal. We started using a program called Operation Trigger Lock where we looked for people that got caught with guns that were felons who had just a propensity of being involved in violent crime or hanging out with people who were involved in violent crime, and we went after them. So in the course of from 1997 till 2001 when I left, we, we were able to take the homicide rate from around 600, 625 murders a year in Bronx, which is just one county, and dropped it down to about 200. And it's because people were spending time in prison.
Peter J. Forcelli:You know? As as you know, it's not everybody has the guts to go out there and pull the trigger. It's the most severe criminals that do that. And when you can get them off the streets and get them off the streets, you can make a difference. And that's when I really fell in love with the federal system and decided to leave the NYPD, which I loved.
Peter J. Forcelli:I loved that job. But then to become a fed and and I love being a fed too. Again, different a little bit different, a lot more paperwork intensive, but, the end result was usually pretty good.
Betsy Smith:So you work for, alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. And and every you know, now we talk as we have for decades in this country about guns. You know, you alluded to that. It's not the gun. It's the person.
Betsy Smith:You know, you are on the front lines of watching gun crime, seeing the kind of people involved in gun crime. What's your answer to violent crime involving guns now in 2025?
Peter J. Forcelli:The simple word, it's one word, and it starts with the letter p, and it's prosecution. You know? Again, people wanna blame the gun. Oh, it's the gun. It's not the gun.
Peter J. Forcelli:It's the person that pulls the trigger. And when you see these people that get arrested time and time and time again and they reoffend, it emboldens them. So someone, you know, that might start out, you know, with lower level crimes will graduate towards more, violent crimes. But, I mean, those who are out there willing to shoot somebody, for them, the only thing that's gonna stop them is is time in jail. So when you look at what's happening in the country with a lot of these woke prosecutors or a lot of this restorative justice nonsense, they're putting people back out on the street, and those people are killing me.
Peter J. Forcelli:Look at the young lady on the train recently. That guy was in and out of jail. That poor girl who's sitting there minding her business, and she was just butchered. So, I mean, had had the prosecutors done their job in that case and in so many other cases, some really decent people would still be alive. You know?
Peter J. Forcelli:Like I said, we took we took that homicide rate from 600 down to about 200. That meant 400 Bronx residents got to live every year for all that was going on.
Betsy Smith:You were around for, you know, the Giuliani Times in New York. You were around for broken windows policing. Explain to people why we need to go back to broken windows policing.
Peter J. Forcelli:Well, if there's a couple reasons, one of which is the people who were involved in lower level crimes are sometimes wanted for more significant crimes. So the person jumping that turnstile, if the cops are just turning a blind eye to that person and not stopping them, right, then and that person's wanted for murder somewhere, well, that person's not gonna get caught. So that was one of the big things. But the other thing was it showed that if you're gonna focus on those lower level things and you're not tolerating that behavior, that it'll stop. And look.
Peter J. Forcelli:Will hardcore criminals ever stop being bad people? No. Unless and you that's why we stick them in prison. But when you when you're not paying attention to those lower level crimes, then bad things happen. I remember one I remember one of the big things that used to happen in New York City, which, by the way, is happening again, is if you were on certain exit ramps or certain red lights, people would come up and start cleaning your windshield, which really doesn't seem like anything other than a nuisance until you realize that if you didn't tip them, because you're kind of like an extortion racket, they pull off your windshield wiper or smash your car.
Peter J. Forcelli:So you know? But now it's, like, almost viewed as well. They're just near the wells, you know, down on their lock and just leave them be. But it's a nuisance for the good people that live there that wanna go about their life. And, again, it emboldens them.
Peter J. Forcelli:Well, if I can get away with this, why not try something else? Why not do a purse snatch? You know, if the cops don't care, then I can do whatever I want.
Betsy Smith:Yeah. That is so well said. When you look at let's start with the NYPD. When you look at the NYPD now compared to when you were there, what do you see, and and what do you wish for your former agency?
Peter J. Forcelli:Well, first off, I wish they would get back to wearing uniforms the way they don't look like elevator mechanics and they look like cops again. Like, we took pride in our uniform. But there's a few things. Like, one of them, I would say, really doesn't pertain to the police department itself. It's the the external factors, like the city administration and prosecutors, is when we went out there, policing wasn't always pretty.
Peter J. Forcelli:And sometimes policing was almost like a full context board. You know this. But if you're out there doing the right thing, they had your back. The bosses had your back. The mayor had your back.
Peter J. Forcelli:We had mayor Koch. We had other mayors who were who were pro police. So you went out there and you did your job. You weren't looking over your shoulder. You weren't afraid.
Peter J. Forcelli:Nowadays, a lot of cops are afraid because they know that even if they do the right thing, they could potentially get indicted just to human the masses. And we've seen this happen. Or fired. Right? The Michael Brown incident.
Peter J. Forcelli:Hands up. Don't shoot, which we know is nonsense. He tried to disarm a police officer who was justifiably shot. That cop will never work in policing again. Did he deserve that?
Peter J. Forcelli:No. And I'm not saying that Michael Brown I wish him dead, but he kinda paved the path that led there, didn't he? But the other thing is and this is something I talk a lot about with with former colleagues and other people like yourself. The leadership in law enforcement has changed. You know, when I came on the job, I was trained by a guy with thirty plus years on a job who was a white shield cop.
Peter J. Forcelli:They just love to be a cop. I worked for bosses. The captains were all white haired men, you know, or women. Sometimes they'd show up with a couple of cocktails, and it was a different era, but they were old. They had a ton of experience from which to draw their decisions from.
Peter J. Forcelli:You know, you never ever heard of a 30 year old captain. Now in the New York City police department, it's not unusual to find one. So we have these younger people promoting because the older people aren't sticking around because it's not worth staying anymore, because their profession has changed so much. So it's kinda scary, and that's not something that's just limited to the NYPD. I see it even in my other former organization, ATF.
Peter J. Forcelli:You see a lot of young, inexperienced people. And the problem is that that inexperience can lead to bad decisions, and sometimes those decisions can get people killed. And, I mean, you know, good people, cops, you know, citizens. You know? It it look.
Peter J. Forcelli:The woke prosecutor, I think, is the worst thing that's happened to this country in my lifetime, but I I would say some of these woke chiefs aren't too far behind.
Betsy Smith:No. You're absolutely right about that. And that is I know we talk to cops all over the country, and they're so frustrated because, when you can't depend on your leadership to back you up for doing the right thing, that that you know, it's it's not only frustrating, it's disheartening. That's why a lot of cops are leaving, you know, especially leaving big cities like New York or Chicago or LA, and they're going places for less pay because they have better management. Right?
Peter J. Forcelli:Absolutely. Well, Betty Betsy, you lived in Chicago. Chicago has this policy that I thought was insane when I first heard about it, and that was the no foot pursuit policy. I get it with vehicle pursuits. Vehicle pursuits, I've been in them.
Peter J. Forcelli:I I'd rather get in a shooting than a vehicle pursuit, to be honest with you. And I've been in both because you're so worried. I don't wanna hit somebody. I wanna hit an innocent person. I wanna flip the car over.
Peter J. Forcelli:They're terrifying. So I understand that some police department shy away from it. And if others don't, that's their business, whatever. But a no foot pursuit policy, Chicago instituted, that's mind blowing to me. And believe it or not, they've set a trend.
Peter J. Forcelli:The county I live in, Fairfax County, Virginia, now has a no foot pursuit policy. Similar thing, shoplifter, please chase the shoplifter. He does something stupid, makes a furtive movement. They shoot him. He's not armed.
Peter J. Forcelli:Right? Again, bad thing. You don't want that to happen. But as a result, now criminals can run, not be chased. I've I've caught people for re you know, started with reasonable suspicion.
Peter J. Forcelli:Let me see what this person's up to. They ran. I caught them that were involved in all kinds of things, including a recent murder. So now in that same instance, that murderer gets you paid because cop can't stop them or chase them for suspicious, you know, for being involved in suspicious activity. And and this is even worse.
Peter J. Forcelli:This is even if they see them committing a crime, they can't chase them without permission from a supervisor. So how long does it take for you to get permission? How many, like, how many yards head start do you give this criminal? Mind blowing to me. Mind blowing.
Betsy Smith:Yeah. It really is, and it's frustrating for citizens, you know, because, you know, they don't feel safe. You know, they know if they go somewhere, know, CVS buy razor blades and somebody's there shoplifting, nobody's gonna help. And, yeah, it it's it's insanity. So when you went to the feds, you know, you worked your way up, and you eventually got into something that made not just national news, I would say international news, and people still talk about it, and that's operation fast and furious.
Betsy Smith:Unwind that a little bit. How did that all start?
Peter J. Forcelli:Well, that's interesting because we talk about not prosecuting. When I got out to Arizona, my agents would stop cars. We we get calls all the time from gun stores, and everybody no. Shouldn't do. The left likes to portray gun stores as the shady businesses where they'll sell you one gun over the table and then 500 a table.
Peter J. Forcelli:That's nonsense. 99% of the gun dealers that I've interacted with, and I've interacted with many were wallbinding citizens who really cared about not just public safety, but how they're perceived in fitting into that world. So we used to get tips all the time. You know? Hey.
Peter J. Forcelli:There's a guy who came in here with a bag full of money. You know? Very suspicious. Could you guys get out here? They wouldn't give this person because they would wait till we can get outside, then and they would conduct the transaction when they knew we were outside that we could stop that car and follow it safe distance away from the store, of course.
Peter J. Forcelli:And we would do that. We would stop cars. We'd ask questions. We'd catch people in lines. We would seize guns, thousands and thousands of guns over the five years I was there.
Peter J. Forcelli:We had other instances where, like, there was a a guy who was trafficking 50 caliber Barrett rifles to the Juarez cartel. We identified him in his network. The US attorney's office decides, hey. The guns are in Mexico because we we identified him after the guns were used in crimes in Mexico. We're not gonna prosecute you because the body of the crime, the gun is in Mexico.
Peter J. Forcelli:That's nonsense too. We had a dirty gun dealer. The only one I encountered who was helping coach people on what to say if they got stopped by the police, how to get guns across the border. He sold about a thousand guns, that made their way into Mexico. And we when we finally arrested him, we had we had undercover agents go in there, undercover detectives from the Phoenix Police Department, conduct transactions.
Peter J. Forcelli:He would coach them. He would fill out the forms for the bad guys. They weren't even filling out their forms. In his post arrest statement, he says, yeah. About a thousand of my guns made their way to Mexico.
Peter J. Forcelli:Who gives a crap? They're Mexicans. Declined for prosecution. So what happens is all these cases are being declined when we're doing things like cops do all over The United States. Nothing scandalous.
Peter J. Forcelli:Our my group's focus changed because in 02/2009, Phoenix became the capital of home invasions and kidnappings in The United States, if you recall. So a new group was stood up to work on the firearms being trafficked to Mexico. They took a different stance. They weren't stopping those cars. They were getting those same phone calls that we were, but they decided, hey.
Peter J. Forcelli:If we can trace these guns back from crime scenes in Mexico and tie them to the buyers, we can build this bigger case. So the same US attorney's office that was telling us they couldn't prosecute cases because the guns were in Mexico. Pivot's now decided to let the guns go to Mexico. This is around 2000 late two thousand nine or early two thousand ten. Or, again, we're working on something completely different.
Peter J. Forcelli:So my agents are getting phone calls from those dealers saying, hey. What's going on? Like, why are our guns getting traced for Mexico? Because when we would seize those guns coming out of the gun store, didn't have to trace them. We knew where they came from.
Peter J. Forcelli:So and then in December 2010, a border patrol agent named Brian Terry was murdered with a gun that was allowed to walk, which meant they could have interdicted it, and they didn't. And, an agent in that group named John Dodson blew the whistle of, hey. Our our people are walking guns. They're letting these guns go south of the border into Mexico. We didn't even know about that because we weren't cold located with them.
Peter J. Forcelli:And what happened was, the US attorney's office was rumbling that they wanted to indict this agent named John Dodson, and I'm furious because wait a minute. We presented hundreds of trafficking cases to them, and they wouldn't prosecute them. Again, not prosecuting. Big problem. And now they're gonna indict an agent for speaking to senator Grassley's office, and that's when I came forward and also blew the whistle and, you know, turned into, as you said, international scandal.
Peter J. Forcelli:At first, Eric Holder denied that they were letting guns walk, so did the higher ranks of ATF. Turned out they were. Approximately 2,200 guns were allowed to walk. Yeah. And in the end, the project the program was obviously shut down, but no one was really held accountable.
Peter J. Forcelli:You know? In fact, the, the Phoenix US attorney's office, one of the people who I blame for paving the path that led to operation fast and furious was a woman named Rachel Hernandez, who was the acting US attorney up till recently. And they were doing the same thing. They were sitting on cases, not not prosecuting them. So they they didn't even learn their lesson, unfortunately.
Peter J. Forcelli:But, yeah, non prosecuting people leads to bad things.
Betsy Smith:Yeah. You're you're so right. And I don't think people really understand. You know, people, especially on on both coasts, if you will, don't really understand the atmosphere in Arizona. You know, you you said it very well.
Betsy Smith:You know, our gun stores here in Arizona, you know, they're they're people in our community. You know? They're they're very involved in, you know, helping train people and keep people safe, and they're involved in things like raffles for your local scout trooper or, you know, any kind of charity. That's one of the things. Gun raffles here are are, you know, just a basic way of life for, well, pretty much every charity.
Betsy Smith:We're so close to Mexico. Of course, we border Mexico, and and there's a lot of people go back and forth. And I I also don't think although people are starting to see, but I don't think the rest of the country really understands the hold that the cartels have on the state of Arizona. Right?
Peter J. Forcelli:Yeah. Well, I mean, it's it's it's an easy path for the Sinaloans because, I mean, right right below you know, Sonora is Sinaloa. So it's straight right up and straight right down. But the other thing is, like I said, you know, when you create this environment where people think they can get away with things, going back to our earlier conversations, the cartels realize, hey. If we're not if one's gonna get locked up in Arizona for doing this.
Peter J. Forcelli:Let's just keep doing it. So they created this this this atmosphere where the cartels felt emboldened to go into Arizona gun stores and buy guns. And look. A a store purchase, which is when somebody's buying a gun for somebody else. It's an act of deception.
Peter J. Forcelli:You know, sometimes the dealers would pick up on something and call us, but there's other times when that person's successful at deceiving the dealer, they'll they'll buy that gun and make their way to Mexico. That's not the dealer's fault. But the problem is when we would identify those people, we couldn't we couldn't get it prosecuted. And it it it became so over the top insane that back when I was there, which is a long time ago, by the way. It was on 2007 to 02/2012, and this stuff is still happening.
Peter J. Forcelli:There was a gun show every quarter called the crossroads of the West Gun Show. And those folks also were good Americans, cooperated with us, gave us information that we needed to you know, not against good people, but bad people. But we would patrol the areas outside just to look for suspicious activity so that we can identify who's possibly bringing guns to Mexico. We would see license plates from as far away as Mexico City parked outside because they couldn't get in because they wanted to be at least somewhat convert. If you think about the geography, that's like driving from Boston to Miami to buy a gun.
Peter J. Forcelli:So that's how far these people would come because they knew in Arizona with that US attorney's office, with that tone, that it was game on. Now not every part of The United States is that way. Some other US attorneys are almost as bad. Some are outstanding. But the problem is when they know they're not stupid people.
Peter J. Forcelli:They know where they can go and get away with things, and they capitalize on that.
Betsy Smith:You know, if you could so we have a senator here in Arizona that keeps telling people that you can walk into a gun store in Arizona and walk out with an AR 15 easier than you can go to the grocery store and buy a gallon of milk. Pete, is that true?
Peter J. Forcelli:That is nonsense. That's a leftist talking point. You you have to fill out a form. You have to pass a background check. That that's complete nonsense.
Peter J. Forcelli:But, again, we had the the the state attorney general over this well, it's this district of Columbia, not the US attorney, but their state prosecutor. He was talking about the AR fifteens that can shoot a thousand rounds a second. So, yeah, an AR 15 is not a machine gun. I mean, how uneducated these folks are when it comes to actual firearms is truly mind blowing.
Betsy Smith:I you know? And that's another very valid point. I I hear this, you know, when I'm doing news hits all the time where people don't really they don't really understand the mechanics of a firearm, and, and they don't really understand that it's just it's just, you know, some pieces of metal and plastic and maybe some wood and things put together. And it's just a it's it's a tool. Right?
Betsy Smith:None of my guns have ever committed crimes because they're in my possession.
Peter J. Forcelli:Correct. Nor have mine. Well, here's the other thing too. Alright. There's roughly they say estimates I heard is 500,000 firearms in circulation in The United States.
Peter J. Forcelli:There's been hundreds of there's been hundreds of millions of guns in The United States for a long time. The crime rate has not gone up and down because of the guns. Goes up and down because of policies involving prosecution. But let's just say for some crazy reason, gun was to evaporate. With today's technology, three d printing, you can make a gun in no time.
Peter J. Forcelli:And do they really think that criminals won't make guns? So, I mean, the whole thing is not just and then the other thing is pick up the US code and look through section nine twenty one, nine twenty two, which is the gun control act. There are hundreds and hundreds of gun laws on the books that go unenforced. There's plenty of laws that are out there. They're not being used.
Peter J. Forcelli:So don't ask for more laws when you have everything. And I go one step further. I was the special agent in charge of ATF's field division in Miami when the Parkland shooting happened. And it was interesting. I got to brief president Trump, senator Rubio, governor Scott, who's the governor at the time.
Peter J. Forcelli:Pam Bondi was there. I don't believe she was the state of summer. They came. Debbie Washamanshult was there, but not paying attention. And someone brought up, hey.
Peter J. Forcelli:We really need a law that you to that prohibits people from bringing guns into school. And the FBI special agent charged in another federal agent. He's like, yeah. I I fully agree. I'm like, there is one.
Peter J. Forcelli:And they all looked at me like, are you kidding? I'm like, no. There is one. I had explained exactly where to find it. So, I mean, that's the thing.
Peter J. Forcelli:Is every oh, we we need a law. We need a law. Well, sometimes they already have the law, and it's not enforced. And sometimes the law really would make no difference. So I just wish that we would go back to punishing criminals, stop trying to punish inanimate objects, or law abiding citizens that are enjoying a constitutionally protected right.
Betsy Smith:Oh, yeah. That so well said. So you ended up sitting down and writing a book. Talk about that process. You know?
Betsy Smith:Because it it it is a complicated case, and but you do a really good job of explaining it. Talk about what made you do that.
Peter J. Forcelli:There were a couple things. You know, fast and furious was weird in that like I said, like, I was in Phoenix, and I didn't know what was happening while it was happening until John Dodson came forward and blew the whistle. So once that happened, ATF dropped these, like, weird cones of silence. No one's allowed to talk about operation fast and furious. And I spent four years trying to clear my name because I was accused of perjury that I they they said they never declined those cases, and some of them were declined in lengthy written declinations.
Peter J. Forcelli:That was mind blowing. There were other things going on. So I had six different times where the DOJ's inspector general was saying the US attorney's office is making accusations against me. I said, polygraph me. I have nothing to hide.
Peter J. Forcelli:Polygraph me. So four years, it took to clear my name. And then after I did, I landed on my feet. So I wound up at the end of my career as the head of training for ATF. So I got to travel the country a bit and do other things.
Peter J. Forcelli:And I run into agents who were in Chicago during fast and furious or elsewhere in the country, and they say, hey. Can you tell us what really happened? And I would tell them over a couple of beers, but I couldn't do it. ATF prohibited me from doing it in a training setting. So then I even said, well, look.
Peter J. Forcelli:The military, when they have an issue that goes sideways, they they put forth training so that people can learn about what happens so that it never happens again. And I was told by Regina Lombardo, was the director of ATF, the acting director at the time, we don't talk about Fast and Furious. DOJ won't allow it. Move on. So when I retired, I got so tired of hearing those things that I decided, you know what?
Peter J. Forcelli:The agents that were on the job deserve to know what happened. And then, look, every now and then, I'd run into a citizen who would ask. And the truth is there was a Republican version of what happened in fast and furious, and there was a Democrat version, and neither were actually accurate. So I wanted the people to know as well what really happened. Because, again, if you don't know history, you can repeat history.
Peter J. Forcelli:What really happened here, and you know this, especially because you read the book, is they abandoned the basic principles of policing, stopping cars, asking probative questions, seizing evidence. They tried to get fancy, and it blew up in their face big time. And then the administration, Obama saw an opportunity, and that, hey. With all of these guns being trafficked to Mexico, we can push for they they call it demand letter three, which required you gun stores in the border states to report sale of more than one rifle to ATF that didn't exist before operation Fast and Furious, which when you think about it is absolutely horrific that a border patrol agent hero, guy named Brian Terry, a stud by all accounts, lost his life, for that mess and that people in the administration thought, you know, again, no, what is it? Never let a a a tragedy go to waste that they decided to push this form as a win for them and that no one in a position of real authority was held accountable.
Peter J. Forcelli:Again, some of the some of one of the US attorneys that was directly involved still works for the US attorney's office. And the one I mentioned earlier, she's been there till March when she was finally pushed out. So, yeah, the lawyers weren't touched. Some agents got dinged up a little bit, but the ones who took the biggest beating, frankly, were the whistleblowers. You know?
Betsy Smith:Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, Brian Terry is still he's a legend here in in Southern Arizona and the Tucson sector. And, you know,
Peter J. Forcelli:I family you know, his family, I I I I'm not gonna lie and say I speak to them a lot, but I've I've had communication with them, mostly his brother, Kent. And they're hurt because, as you know, the the court case was thrown out Yeah. Due to the technicality. But they feel so betrayed. And Brian Terry was only on the border patrol for three years.
Peter J. Forcelli:Mhmm. To be on Bortac with that much time on the job is a testament to what a monster and I mean this in a good way. I'm envious. I wish I could lift weights. But, I mean, Brian Terry was just a big, hulking, gentle giant, like, a like, except for a stud.
Peter J. Forcelli:And, yeah, his loss is something that really absolutely appalling. And I I feel so bad for the family because they're just good, just genuine, like, all American people, and they've been lied to and treated like crap by our government.
Betsy Smith:Yeah. Absolutely. They are good good Americans, good Arizonans. You know? They you know, they're from Michigan and and, you know, but just just good people all around.
Betsy Smith:And it you know, that's why I think it's so important that you wrote the book. Where can people get the book, Pete? Where can they find you? And so, you know, we can everybody can learn the truth.
Peter J. Forcelli:Sure. Well, the book's available on Amazon, of course, if you buy anything on Amazon. I have a website. It's wwwpeterjforselli.com for folks that might want a signed copy. I'm on LinkedIn.
Peter J. Forcelli:It's probably the site that I use the most for social media because it they keep it professional there for the most part. I think x brings out, like, the worst in a lot of people, so I don't use it that often. And the other thing is, right now, I'm involved in trying to support federal law enforcement officers who get injured in line of duty or or, god forbid, killed or suffer some other catastrophic event. And then I was recently asked to be the the director of law enforcement affairs for the Federal Law Enforcement Foundation. So folk can also find me there.
Peter J. Forcelli:And, yeah, it's just a way of giving back to a profession that I spent thirty five years in, Betsy, and don't really feel that I wanna walk away from. I still love the people. I love the profession. I think it's the noblest of professions, and it's just a way for me to stay tied, you know, to the to the work.
Betsy Smith:Well, Pete Forsella, you are you're a truth teller, and and you give so generously of your time now even in retirement to help your brothers and sisters in federal law enforcement, and we really appreciate that. And, we thank you for spending time with us today. And if you'd like more information about the National Police Association, you can visit us at nationalpolice.org.
Speaker 3:Every day, the brave men and women of law enforcement put their lives on the line to keep us safe but they need our help to continue their mission. Activist politicians, progressive prosecutors, the ACLU and the rest of the anti police forces receive millions in donations from extremist pro criminal elements like George Soros and woke corporations. The National Police Association is fighting them in courts around the country including the United States Supreme Court defending officers who are being attacked for doing their jobs. Additionally, the National Police Association works year round to pass tough on crime legislation to put and keep criminals behind bars. Consider going to nationalpolice.org and donating to keep us in the fight.
Speaker 3:Together, we can win. That is nationalpolice.org.
