National Police Association Podcast with Guest, Barbara Oldrati, mother of unjustly charged LEO Salvatore Oldrati
Hi, this is Sergeant Betsy Brantner Smith with the National Police Association, and this is the National Police Association podcast. I have with me a really, really special guest today, and I wanted to bring her to you because she's going to talk about a case that is ongoing in the criminal justice system here in The United States. As we frequently talk about at the National Police Association, there are police officers that are being indicted, that have been prosecuted, and some are in prison for simply doing their job. And this is one of those cases, and we want to make sure that everybody knows about this case, knows what they can do to help and is aware of it as it continues to work its way through the system. Barbara Aldradi, welcome to the show.
Barbara Oldrati:Thank you, thank you for having me.
Betsy Smith:So you are the wife of a cop, you are the mom of a cop, you have all kinds of relatives that are police officers, and you're an educator, which is, that's pretty typical. Cops and teachers and nurses, you know, are all those same kind of people that are out there. You're just trying to serve the public, do your job, live your life. And your son got involved in a situation, a very typical situation, where he answered a 911 call where there was supposedly people breaking in, there was a man with a gun, and this really turned your whole family's life upside down. And we're gonna talk about that.
Betsy Smith:But first of all, just tell me about your son, Salvador.
Barbara Oldrati:So Salvador always wanted to be a police officer from a little boy. He would watch TV shows, not the fake ones, like the real ones. Research. He would always dress up like a police officer with my husband being in the SWAT unit. You know, we would take him to his headquarters and show him the trucks and all the equipment.
Barbara Oldrati:He just never strayed from the path of from a small child of wanting to be a police officer. And then at the age of 14, he was able to get into the Philadelphia Police Explorers here, where he was able to train, do scenarios, classroom training. And then when he was 18 years old, he graduated high school. He moved to New Jersey with my parents and became a special one law enforcement officer for Gloucester Township. And then from there at the age of 19 became a cop in Camden, New Jersey, 1 of the most dangerous cities.
Barbara Oldrati:And then he was in Camden for a few years and then he was able to get an opportunity for better pay, more room for moving up in the system, so to speak. And he became a police officer in Mantua Township, New Jersey. And he made VFW officer of the year. He received another life saving award. Many drug stops.
Barbara Oldrati:He was involved in many incidents where people were armed with weapons and had weapons in the car, never fired upon them, never took out his gun. Know, guns are a police officer's tool. Sometimes you need to pull them out. Sometimes you need to use them as appropriately, reasonably, and he always did that. He always made sure he did the best that he could each and every day, and was well loved by the community and his police buddies and the township and the department, everyone.
Barbara Oldrati:So he was in Mantua probably about a year or two years before the critical incident happened back in September of twenty twenty one.
Betsy Smith:Right 09/21/2021 Salvatore and another officer get a call It's a 911 call, it's a distraught guy, and he's claiming that there's man and or two men and a woman. He kind of changes that a little bit. They're breaking into his shed. He even says on the 911 call that, he goes, well, I have a 45 that my grandfather gave me and I don't know what I can do with it, so I'm throwing quarter sticks at them. That means big firecrackers.
Betsy Smith:And it's just a it's a typically strange call that your average patrol cop gets. And and he and he responded to that call with another officer, didn't he?
Barbara Oldrati:He did. And they don't they don't have the computer system in the car, so they're not getting the updates. What they know is they're reporting to a burglary in progress. There's a man that is armed. That's all they know.
Barbara Oldrati:They don't know that the homeowner has a gun that was not relayed to them. All they know is a burglary in progress at this address that they're headed to and there's an armed man.
Betsy Smith:So that as a police officer tells me that while I'm on my way to that call, I'm at the highest level of awareness, right? Burglary in progress, man with a gun. And again, your son, he was no rookie. He had been to, in many situations, well trained guy. And so he goes to this call only having that information that you spoke about.
Betsy Smith:Tell us what happened then.
Barbara Oldrati:So when the first officer pulls up, Corporal Layton pulls up to the man's house, the man is outside of his house and he's on an open line with 911. When officer Layton, corporal Layton pulls up, he puts down his passenger side window and he is met with Mr. Sharp pointing a gun right at him.
Betsy Smith:The suspect.
Barbara Oldrati:Suspect. Right in the window. Officer Layton cannot get to his weapon because it's wedged between the seats and he's a larger guy, and he's shocked that this has happened. So he immediately pulls up a few houses and you hear on the 911 call, the 911 says, are you speaking to my officers? And you hear Corporal Layton say, put down the weapon or drop the weapon and you hear the car speed up and to get out of way.
Barbara Oldrati:My son is coming behind him. He starts to get out of the car, but gets back in the car because he sees the corporal pulling away. Now remember, it's 01:30AM. It's low light conditions. It's dark.
Barbara Oldrati:He sees Mr. Sharper, the suspect, extend his arm, but doesn't see the weapon in his arm at that time or in his hand at that time. So, he's now following his corporal thinking, We're going after the bad guys. They told us they're going this way. I'm following my corporal.
Barbara Oldrati:When the corporal stops, Salvator stops. The corporal gets out of the car, Salvator gets out of the car. And he says, he's got a gun. He's got a gun. Where?
Barbara Oldrati:My son says, who's got a gun? He says, right there, right there. He's got a gun. Drop the gun. So you can see in the 911 call that my son comes around the car and then ducks back.
Barbara Oldrati:He says, I wanted to make sure that that was a weapon in his hand. And he had the weapon up in a 90 degree angle by his hip and he was pointing it at my son. So my son in fear of his life, right? Because action time is different than reaction time. He engages him.
Barbara Oldrati:Then he continues to flail on the ground. You hear my son as he approaches him, moves up a little bit, stop reaching, stop reaching. Once notices that the weapon is no longer in his hand because that man is still a threat, he can shoot from the ground. Once he realizes he's not a threat anymore, then they move in. The weapon is now there at the bottom near his feet, and they now begin lifesaving measures as my son does.
Barbara Oldrati:My son gets the medic bag out of the car and begins putting the chest seals on him. Because remember, this is still an active scene. They're still looking for other people. So now other officers are arriving, checking the scene, getting things roped off, checking the house. They still are looking for two more suspects, but they have, at the time, they still don't know it's the homeowner.
Barbara Oldrati:They know they have a suspect in custody that has a weapon, which they were told from the report from the operator or dispatch.
Betsy Smith:Right, so this whole situation, of course, goes on and on. And your son, of course, once you're involved in a shooting, there's some protocol that takes place, and ultimately there's an investigation.
Barbara Oldrati:Right, so in New Jersey, the New Jersey Attorney General's office has their own shooting response team, the New Jersey Police Shooting Response Team do the investigations for transparency. It was taken out of the local prosecutor's hands in each county for transparency. So the attorney general's shooting response team investigates. They turn the report over to a representative from the attorney general's office and they sit down with everyone involved, the chief, the captain, and they go over the findings and basically that while this was a tragic shooting, because it's tragic, someone lost their life, was it a perfect shooting, but there was nothing criminal here. But all shootings, thanks to progressive movement in New Jersey, has to go in front of a grand jury, but the Attorney General also has a stipulation that if there's enough evidence, they do not have to put it in front of the grand jury.
Barbara Oldrati:So he was cleared very quickly to return to work. As you know, as a police officer, if there was anything remotely suspicious or anything that my son did was incorrect, he would not have been permitted to go back to work. He would have been put on the shelf until the grand jury investigation or the grand jury happened.
Betsy Smith:Right, and in fact, he went back to work. He went back to patrol, got another award, Police Officer of the Year again, and he got promoted to corporal, right?
Barbara Oldrati:He called him hard and became corporal, right? Because this was his life, this job was his life. And he was cleared very quickly. Once he was cleared to return to work, he had to go through a protocol. He had to, you know, requalify.
Barbara Oldrati:He had to get cleared through the doctors and everything they had to go through. And he was cleared within the month. He was cleared altogether, but from the Attorney General's office within like two weeks, he was cleared to go back to work. So he was cleared pending, you know, obviously they have to go through the grand jury. But again, they reassured him that this was a justified shooting.
Barbara Oldrati:A man pointed a gun at one officer, pointed a gun at the other officer. And, you know, New Jersey law supports everything that I'm speaking about. So, while I'm here speaking as a mother for my son, I'm not speaking on my opinion. I'm speaking on the facts of the discovery, which we have, and the facts of the case. Once they investigated this shooting, he didn't violate the department's use of force.
Barbara Oldrati:He didn't violate the New Jersey use of force policy. And there was no departmental violations, nothing because he act in accordance to his job. So once he was cleared, and then they did the other investigation, they found high levels of methamphetamine, cocaine and other drugs in the decedent's system. When they interviewed the neighbors, the neighbors said he was acting erratically that evening. He went over to the house across the street to a young man's house who the young man said, let the police handle it.
Barbara Oldrati:They're breaking in, they're breaking in. He saw the gun. He feared for his life. He took his family into the basement because he was throwing these quarter sticks of dynamite. They didn't know if it was gunshots or what it was that was happening.
Betsy Smith:And there was no burglary in progress, right?
Barbara Oldrati:No, and that's the other thing. And I know a lot of people, there's a lot of trolls, Oh, they were breaking it. They were not. Right. The findings of the investigation, the facts of the investigation was this man, was he high, so high that he hallucinated?
Barbara Oldrati:It could be. But he has a history of drug substance and definitely alcohol. His truck was equipped with a breathalyzer. He couldn't start his vehicle until he blew into the vehicle. The main thing was with this was this man's weapons were taken from him years prior for prior suicidal attempts.
Barbara Oldrati:Now, when he says, I don't know what I can do with the weapon, he is also a veteran. So, he was trained in the military how to use a weapon. And he was also trained that you don't point weapons at people unless you're prepared to be fired upon and or to use it. So, know, he had a lot of demons. I'm not here to talk ill will of him.
Barbara Oldrati:My heart goes out to them. But this man was suicide by police, in my opinion, and the findings that we have support this. For example, his ex wife, to whom she has a son with, called to ask to speak to the detective the very next day, and the first thing she said was, he did this. We have a very good relationship. It is what it is.
Barbara Oldrati:We're divorced. But I know he did this. He's been suicidal. Too many times to count. She has a notebook.
Barbara Oldrati:She has a video of him when he was so drunk on the lawn. Too many times to count, he's been in and out of rehab. He cut his wrists. He was suicidal before they got married. So, once he was clear from the initial investigation of the actual facts and laws, when you bring all this into it, this man just had a lot of demons, faked a 911 call.
Barbara Oldrati:And the end result was he lost his life, unfortunately. But now after twenty months of my son was cleared to go back to work, they bring it in front of the grand jury. At this time, a new attorney general has come in, a left progressive, not worried about the cops, and they bring this in front of a grand jury. And again, it's supposed to be of your peers, but are they really, if you don't know the laws and the rules and are they your peers? Nobody knows what I do from day to day.
Barbara Oldrati:I don't know what you do from day to day. In fact, even in the actual fact documentation from the grand jury, they charged him with one count of reckless manslaughter, which doesn't even fit. It's an upcharge. How was that reckless? He didn't know that this was the homeowner.
Barbara Oldrati:He didn't know that the homeowner did all these drugs that evening. He's pulling up to a scene where there's a man with a gun as per the call that came out.
Betsy Smith:And also per the other responding officer.
Barbara Oldrati:Right. So reckless doesn't even fit. But this is what they want to do. They want to try this in the public's opinion to get people to go, Oh, here's another cop. Officers are allowed to act reasonably when their life is in danger.
Barbara Oldrati:And they have a weapon, and they have a tool, that's their weapon, and they have to use it sometimes. Is it pleasant? No. But that is a part of their job to do that. Now, that's the reckless facts right there.
Barbara Oldrati:Now, there's also self defense from New Jersey. Self defense exonerates a person who uses force in a reasonable belief that such actions was necessary to prevent his death or serious injury or death to a serious death or serious injury to a third person through his belief that was later proven mistaken. Accordingly, the law requires only a reasonable, not necessarily a correct judgment. So, when he sees the gun being pointed at him and the officer there telling him there's a gun, he's in fear of his life. He is protected under that law.
Barbara Oldrati:Again, reasonably. And then the New Jersey law states that waiting until a weapon is used on you is not required for self defense. An individual can have an honest and reasonable belief he was in danger that required the use of deadly force. If a party banished a weapon or otherwise threatened him. In other words, a person does not have to wait for someone to use a weapon before he can use deadly force and be justified in doing so.
Barbara Oldrati:So, they charged him on something that he is justified by the laws of New Jersey, not opinion, not my opinion as a mother, not opinion as someone who doesn't like police officers. This is the law that he is protected under, and he acted reasonably in fear of his life. You hear him on his body cam footage, he says, I thought he was gonna effing shoot me. Mhmm. The other officer thought he was he said, corporal officer Aldradi at that time, he wasn't corporal, saved my life.
Barbara Oldrati:He gives the statement. He's he's so distraught because he's just in shock.
Betsy Smith:Right. Right.
Barbara Oldrati:Bravo. And having the gun pointed at his head. And when people say, Oh, that didn't happen. This It absolutely happened. We have the facts.
Barbara Oldrati:We have the discovery. We have the laws that support him. How are we here? We're here because this is politically motivated by the Office of the OPIA in New Jersey.
Betsy Smith:Tell people what that is.
Barbara Oldrati:It's the Office of Public Integrity and Accountability, and it's the division within the Attorney's General's Office who investigates these police shootings and such other criminal acts. So, the kicker comes last March when the head, Tom Eicher, so called steps down, retires, but all of a sudden, all around all this prosecutorial misconduct, they're doing the same thing to several other cases in New Jersey that these cases have been dropped or judges have thrown them out and or are still pending because they're withholding important evidence. The grand jury, it's a packet. Here, look it over. Here's the basic facts.
Barbara Oldrati:Everything I just read to you, they read to the grand jury. Well, how could you find him guilty and or there was not guilty. Is there enough evidence?
Betsy Smith:Yeah, enough to indict.
Barbara Oldrati:Right? Enough to indict. But you can indite a ham sandwich because the level is so low to indite. And this is what they're doing. They're throwing whatever they can at the wall to see what sticks.
Barbara Oldrati:So, son got indicted for Correct, months after he was cleared. Was indicted 05/23/2023.
Betsy Smith:Right, so he gets indicted, arrested, charged, and tell us where the case is from there.
Barbara Oldrati:So on 05/23/2023, we were actually, we knew it was going to the grand jury, but all of the prosecutors that were involved in the case through this one and that one said, we've had conversations about this case. This is not an indictable case because this was a justified shooting protected under the laws. This is just a formality to show transparency. But when they present the case, of course, they just give a little bit of tidbits. They never tell them that my son was clear to go back to work, that he's been working.
Barbara Oldrati:They never talk about the ex wife statement that this man's been suicidal and had a lot of drugs in his system and had a pass because it's supposed to be about what my son knew. My son didn't know that at the time. He knows he's just pulling up. So, he's indicted. We have to turn him in to jail.
Barbara Oldrati:He has to be reported. In fact, one of the state police, they would have to walk him into jail. They refused to walk him in. They said, this is not right, what they're doing. This is a justified shooting.
Barbara Oldrati:We were fortunately able to get him out after a day. He doesn't know that he's getting out when he goes in front of the judge, but we were able to get him out. And then now we began the process of the fact finding and check-in dates at court. And here we are, you know, almost two years later, and we're just awaiting information to go to trial. We're in the process right now.
Barbara Oldrati:The attorney general wants to get our use of force expert thrown out. He's extremely talented and has a long list, a great resume, but they can't find a use of force person to go against. Who are you going to find to go against the laws? Acting reasonably. Who are you going to find to lie on the stand to say what he did was reckless?
Barbara Oldrati:Well, I tell you who was reckless. The nine eleven operator was reckless because he didn't tell Mr. Sharp to stay in the residence. They didn't report that the homeowner was outside. I know things go fast, things go quickly.
Barbara Oldrati:I'm not here to judge. Mr. Sharp was reckless. He inhaled a whole bunch of drugs. However, he took the drugs.
Barbara Oldrati:He had a weapon that he knew was inoperable because it was a replica because they have taken his real guns because of suicidal ideations, and he was put away for suicide. But the thing about the replica was so a replica is different than a toy. So a replica looks exactly like a real Unloaded with a magazine with bullets. The only difference was that my husband explains to me is the pin was removed. The pin was in, could have been, but Right.
Betsy Smith:Again, the officer doesn't know any of Right. And Mr.
Barbara Oldrati:Sharp knew what he needed to do to get the officers to shoot Absolutely. Going point it at one, and then I'm going to point it at the other. At that time, he dropped that weapon. He could have went back into the house. He could have said, no, wait, it's not real.
Barbara Oldrati:He could have did all of those things. But he chose as soon as the officer pulled up, he chose to meet them right there at the curb and point that weapon at the one corporal. And right now, we're waiting for trial.
Betsy Smith:Your son, in the meantime, can't do the job he loves, the job he has wanted to do his whole life, right?
Barbara Oldrati:Spend it without pay, lost his insurance, getting ready. He was indicted in May 2023, was getting married in September 2023. So now he has a wife and now they have a baby. So now we're paying insurance out of our pocket. Right.
Barbara Oldrati:We have great support. We're very blessed. But it's the insurance that we're all doing our best to help him out with.
Betsy Smith:Right, absolutely. So, this case is rolling toward trial, correct?
Barbara Oldrati:I mean, that's what they tell us. We're preparing for trial, of course, at any time. You know, I don't know how they're going to put a trial on. What are you going to say? But, you know, they can lie.
Barbara Oldrati:They've lied. Yeah. Because now with, and I've sent so many articles, every week there's a new article coming out about the OPIA and the prosecutorial misconduct. And there are senators in New Jersey, and I've reached out to their offices who are calling for this attorney general to step down because of these frivolous charges, because of this prosecutorial misconduct. New Jersey is a mess and the governor and the AG are about to find out because Alina Habba now just came out last week and is opening an investigation because they're telling the state police, don't aid ICE.
Barbara Oldrati:These are mandates from the president. These are documents that executive orders. Who are you to go against these from the president of The United States? I mean, listen, I'm glad they're doing this because I want them to go in there and I want them to revamp this whole state. The people of New Jersey deserve better.
Barbara Oldrati:The police officers deserve better. We're so quick to judge these officers, but they're the only ones that wake up every day and know in their mind, other than the military and a few other positions or jobs where you might not come home. You might have a life, take a life or save a life that day. And yes, are there bad seeds? In every profession, there's bad seeds.
Barbara Oldrati:Take care of the ones that are not doing and following the rules. But officers that are using reasonable force, they're just so disrespected and spoke to so horribly. This is not a case of police brutality. That's not what we're talking about. That's a separate issue.
Barbara Oldrati:Handle that separately. This was a case of a justified shooting, tragic as it is, but now all the lives are affected. That little boy lost his father's life, lost his father. I mean, it's tragic. I've lost my son in a way, because he's suffering with PTSD.
Barbara Oldrati:He's never going to be able to go back and do this job. This is all he ever wanted to do, and he was good at it. And we're just right now stuck in limbo. And like I said, I've reached out to senators. I've sent letters to the White House, to the DOJ, to Alina Habba.
Barbara Oldrati:I'm just looking for people to get our story to them and put pressure on these corrupt politicians who hide behind their mask of, Oh, we're doing justice and we're going after the bad cops. You're not going after the bad cops.
Betsy Smith:And that's why we wanted to talk to you because the New Jersey attorney general is an activist. He allegedly has a lot of other issues that are being investigated right now. He needs to clean his own house. And in the meantime, your family is just trying to tread water, move toward an appropriate ending to this because you're right. I don't see how they could ever take this case to trial.
Betsy Smith:That's why we want people to know, we want you to go on YouTube, you can watch the body cam, you can read articles about this. And I will say that the press, especially the press in New Jersey, a lot of the headlines that you see about your son's officer involved shooting is, you know, cop pulls up and shoots veteran, and the the press has been very lazy in the way that they have described and investigated the drug addict who called 911, and they've been very lazy and inappropriate in a lot of these articles in the way they portrayed your son.
Barbara Oldrati:And the media in general should be ashamed of themselves. Yes. That's what they do. They go with the narrative. There is no investigative reporting anymore because channel six, channel three, channel ten, if you would have went and investigated it and you Listen, I have the ex wife's statement.
Barbara Oldrati:I have her audio statement. Fireside America podcast we were on. They aired it. Minute forty four, you can go to a Fireside America podcast with Ryan Robbins, plays her eighteen minute audio of this. The laws, Officer Tatum, he did a segment on it.
Barbara Oldrati:He went over just the facts of the
Betsy Smith:law. Everything
Barbara Oldrati:supports what he did. People might not like it. I don't like it. My son doesn't like that he had to take somebody's life.
Betsy Smith:No, no cop wakes up and says, I hope I get to shoot somebody today. No one likes being involved in an officer involved shooting.
Barbara Oldrati:But you know, they said, oh, he pulled up within five seconds. No, that's a lie because the comm center, the podcast, they did a whole show on my son's body cam and the 09:11 footage last May, even before we knew him, even before my husband and I started doing podcasts and reaching out, we got ahold of them in November and they had us on their show. And they said the same thing. Officers have a split second decision and nobody knows what that's like unless you're in it. And I just sent you a link to a YouTube video where a news report did that.
Barbara Oldrati:They went out and they investigated how police officers can change in a split second. One minute, they're crossing kids at a school or they're doing things and the next minute they could be in the battle for their life. It's a split second decision. And as long as it follows the laws and reasonable, this should not even be an issue. But when you have people pushing a narrative of the Attorney General and these left progressives, okay, and they're people that don't support police.
Barbara Oldrati:This is what you get. You get, Oh, he pulled up in five seconds. No, it was more like he had like fifteen seconds to put the gun down. He chose not to put the gun down. He did not follow commands.
Barbara Oldrati:If he would have followed commands, he would have been alive and we wouldn't be in this situation. And to top it all off, if he lived, he would have been charged with assault on police. Yes. Having paraphernalia in his house, illegal drugs, he would have been charged. But because we're playing this emotion and not supporting police and not following the facts and the laws, this is where we are.
Barbara Oldrati:I'm so infuriated that this is happening, not just to my son. Today, it's my son. Tomorrow, it's your sons or daughters. This is happening all over the country. Where are these leaders?
Barbara Oldrati:Who's gonna step up? I'm getting fired up. That's the answer. I love that. And the trolls.
Barbara Oldrati:Oh, the trolls. Oh, yeah, he just pulled up. He unleashed on that guy. Have no idea what you're talking about. Go and do the simulations where it's either shoot or be shot.
Barbara Oldrati:In fact, you go ride with the police in the most corrupt.
Betsy Smith:And that's one of the things we always suggest. Go on a ride along. Go join a citizen police academy. Go do that simulation. Absolutely.
Betsy Smith:And you're you're absolutely right. This this travesty of justice could be any cop out there, and it could be your your kid, your neighbor, your spouse. And that's why, Barbara, we wanted to bring you on. I know that you've got a GiveSendGo account to help with legal expenses and things like that, and then also the National Center for Police Defense has taken on Salvator's case too. Am I They
Barbara Oldrati:have. And in both the Give, Send, Go and with that with the National Police, they have a write up of all factual information. Facts. Facts over feelings. Not my opinion.
Barbara Oldrati:It's not my opinion because he's my son. These are facts of the case. These are the laws that support him. These are the facts of the case. And I hope they come into New Jersey and they clean it up because it is so corrupt to the core and people need to start waking up and people, oh, no, that's not happening.
Barbara Oldrati:Oh, it's happening. We just haven't been made aware of it. And that's why I continue to go on and my husband and I speak up to all these different podcasts and thankful for the people that have us because it's about the truth. Is not about what you think he should have done or what I hoped he would have done or this. This is the facts of the case, reasonable use of deadly force.
Barbara Oldrati:And that's what it was, and unfortunate that it may be.
Betsy Smith:Well, and that's why we wanted to have you on. And Barbara, we cannot thank you enough for being on with us today. And if you'd like more information about the National Police Association, you can visit us at nationalpolice.org.
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