National Police Association Podcast with Guest, Bert Eyler, V.P. National Center for Police Defense
Hi. This is sergeant Betsy Brantner Smith with the National Police Association, and this is the National Police Association podcast. I have a guest today that is just doing incredible work for law enforcement officers around this nation. It's no secret that, the profession as well as individual officers are under attack. And a lot of that, comes not just from activists and sometimes politicians, but just from a real lack of understanding of what your average cop does day to day.
Betsy Smith:So I thought we'd bring in this next guest to help explain a lot of that and talk about what he and his organization are doing around the country. Bert Eyler, welcome to the show.
Bert Eyler:Oh, Betsy, thank you very much for having me.
Betsy Smith:So you are the president of the police officers defense coalition, and you're involved in, part of the legislative aspect of protecting cops. But first, I gotta ask you the question that I ask everybody who was involved in law enforcement. Bert, why'd you become a cop?
Bert Eyler:I always wanted to be a cop. Even going through high school, one of my things, I look back on my form for what I wanted to do was computer science or law enforcement. And I got into law enforcement, you know, back in 1995. Before that, I got was in the Marine Corps from '88 to to '92, and I I like helping people. I like the public service.
Bert Eyler:And, you know, my dad always said, if you if you find a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life, and I haven't worked since 1988 when I went in the marine corps. And it just if Progressive, after twenty five years, started seeing what was going on with law enforcement, so the next obvious thing to get into was helping officers, and the best way to do that is getting pro law enforcement legislation passed.
Betsy Smith:Now you spent twenty five years on the job, so you had a real literal bird's eye view of some of the complications and and struggles that law enforcement, goes through. And you and I were cops at this at the same time, and and things were always changing, weren't they? We'd always get some new case law, some new general order. Plus, in the nineties, we went through, that whole nineteen nineties, you know, crime wave and then the crime bill, and it it it's very cyclical, isn't it, how law enforcement works?
Bert Eyler:Yeah. It it it is. I mean, it it's ups and downs you have, you know, issues. I mean, like you were saying with with the nineties, you had, Rodney King, and you noticed, you know, the the things that happened, but, you know, it all came back around. And one thing I noticed even when I started law enforcement, you had support of, you know, your citizens, your senior staff, politicians, state, federal, and local, they always looked out for law enforcement.
Bert Eyler:Like, you're doing your job. If something happened, let the process take its course. Now I'm seeing over the years that's changed. Just like an officer does something, immediately, it's like they're in the wrong. And we're going from, you know, that aspect of he's he or she is doing the right thing to, okay.
Bert Eyler:They're the suspect. The suspect's now the victim, and it it's wrong. And and that that that's the part that needs to change.
Betsy Smith:You're you're absolutely right. I was you know, we recently in this country, we had a a terrible plane crash, you know, a military helicopter and a and a a jetliner. And I was, you know, watching all the news reports and listening, and and, the guy from the NTSB said, you know, we'll know more in about six months. And I I I when I looked at that and I thought, yeah, these are complicated investigations. And yet when a law enforcement officer ends up using deadly force, the public expects within twenty four hours all the body cam, all the reports.
Betsy Smith:You know, they wanna know who the officer is, exactly what was happening, all of that. How did we get there that we don't it doesn't seem like the media and the public and very often the politicians and sometimes even police leadership don't even allow for a proper period of investigation before they make, sometimes crazy decisions.
Bert Eyler:Yeah. And I think that comes down to body boarding cameras. Right? The media, like, when you and I were both in, you didn't have instant video. And they think and I think the public is unaware that it takes time.
Bert Eyler:You know? You gotta review it. You know? They want it out instantly. And I think, you know, body body cameras are good, but they're also bad because you have all that Monday night quarterbacking.
Bert Eyler:Right? It's like, well, why they do this? Why they do that? And, you know, you gotta look through it through the eyes of the officer at the time that it took place. And everybody's looking looking back at it at a different angle going, well, why they do this?
Bert Eyler:Why they do that? And they don't give them time to reflect and say, this is why I did it. And you can't really go after the officer because you don't know what happened. But if that officer starts saying something, then it's taken out of context, and it can be used against them in court. And we've seen that across, you know, across the nation, and that that's the part that I think needs to stop is the rhetoric and getting back to supporting law enforcement.
Betsy Smith:You know, this has been about a ten or eleven year process now. And especially in the last four years, we've really seen this demonization and vilification of and prosecution of police officers simply doing their job. And a lot one of the things that we hear, batted around all the time is that phrase qualified immunity. And there seems to be a misunderstanding in this country about what qualified immunity means and and what police officers can do. And I I have been on all kinds of news show panels where the you know, there's always a panelist that says, oh, you cops can do anything you want with with with no worry about the law.
Betsy Smith:Can you explain the insanity of that and really what qualified immunity is?
Bert Eyler:Qualified immunity is is simple. It's it's preventing the frivolous lawsuits for law enforcement under civil liability. So it stems from a a case from the US Supreme Court back in the '25 back in 1967. Basically, what happened was officers locked up some individuals during the time the US Supreme Court ruled that that law was unconstitutional. The officers didn't know it was unconstitutional.
Bert Eyler:They were doing the job the way they've been trained, color of the law. Once it became unconstitutional, then those individuals tried to sue the law enforcement officers personally for civil liability. That's when the US Supreme Court said no. It doesn't matter if if if if they if the law was unconstitutional, they did not know it was unconstitutional. So, basically, if you do the job the way you've been trained, policies and procedures, you're covered under qualified immunity.
Bert Eyler:It doesn't prevent, those officers that break the law or, you know, intentionally steal or assault people thinking they can get away with it. And if we can codify it into law, it's gonna protect those officers that are doing the right thing and that are good officers. And sadly, you do have bad officers out there. It it happens. I mean, you have it in every profession, but it doesn't protect them.
Bert Eyler:So they can be sued personally. So it's allowing officers to do their job without being worried about, okay. Somebody's coming after my house, my pension, everything. And that's that's the the the norm of getting out there is letting people know. And I've and it also comes down to the media.
Bert Eyler:You know, you have the media. You also have some politicians that they come straight out and say, well, they can shoot whoever they want with qualified immunity. And that's not true. It's just protecting them. And I think if we can get this passed and we've been working with, congressman Banks now, senator Banks out of Indiana for going on two years now to get it to get this passed.
Bert Eyler:And we now have HR five zero three on the house side and and bill, s one two two on the senate side, and we're working to get those, sponsorships up. At the end of last year, we had 40 cosponsors on the house side. We're we're back we're getting back up to that, reaching out to them because it just got reintroduced. And on the senate side, we currently have nine senators, and we're still pushing that. And, really, what I would like to tell your your viewers is that's what qualified immunity is about.
Bert Eyler:It's just helping officers who do their job. The way they've been trained, they shouldn't have to worry about being sued. And I think if we can get this passed, it will show that, you know, on the federal side that we support law enforcement. We have police week coming up, which is eleventh through the seventeenth. And, you know, for your viewers, reach out to your representative and your senators to support this bill.
Bert Eyler:And I think it will also bring more qualified applicants into the pool because, I mean, if you're if you're certified just like you, I mean, if you have qualified immunity and you know you have the support of your senior staff and leadership, you're gonna get more qualified applicants. And we have to stop the rhetoric of blaming law enforcement for everything. Because when you look at it on pretty much 99.9% of these cases, if you look at it via video, if they'd if they would have just done what the officer said and went along with it, you're on video. If if it's something minor that you feel that you're unjust, you can bring it up. But when you turn around and just start fighting, things like that happen.
Bert Eyler:If you did what you were supposed to do when the officer asked you to do it and they were within the policies and procedures, you just work it out after that. And that that's what qualified immunity is about, and that's why we need to get it passed.
Betsy Smith:Well, that's the thing. Our justice system has those checks and balances. So if I pull somebody over and and, they don't think I you know, they don't think they were speeding or they you know, whatever their issue is, they get to go to court and tell a judge about it, and the judge gets to decide, you know, whether I'm right or they're right. And, we've kind of especially in the last four years, we we've oh, not we, but, you know, media, politicians, activists have been encouraging people to argue with the police, in some cases, to fight with the police, to run from the police. And and people of the highest ranks, in our political system have made outrageous statements telling young African American men that if the police pull you over in The United States, you might get shot in the head.
Betsy Smith:That's quoting our former president. That's absolutely outrageous, rhetoric. What kind of response are you getting from the, elected representatives when it comes to, codifying qualified immunity?
Bert Eyler:We're up up on the hill. We're getting a a lot of support. We're getting a lot of support on especially on the Republican side. On the Democratic side, we are getting some support there, not as much as the Republicans. I don't know why.
Bert Eyler:But a lot of your you know, on the conservative Republicans, the blue dog Democrats, getting great support from them. And we're and we're just, you know, keep pushing pushing through. And like you said, the rhetoric is what's causing this. And until we get that to to to get stopped, they're they're just as big as cause as as, you know, the individual, you know, the the suspect that's doing it. And I don't you know?
Bert Eyler:This, I believe, is a way to get it stopped, is, getting qualified immunity passed, stopping the rhetoric, and, you know, moving forward. And, you know, and the other thing I say is all the representatives out there, go do a ride along. Right? Go see go see what these officers, the men and women in blue right now are going through, and then come back and tell me, you know, do you do you still feel the same way?
Betsy Smith:Yeah. I'm a firm believer in ride alongs, in having politicians as well as media and activists too come in and and do some scenario based training, things like that, see what it's like to make those decisions in these high pressure life and death situations. I wish every politician in this country would see what it's like for just an hour or two, what it's like to be an American police officer.
Bert Eyler:Right. And I think the ones that don't wanna do it, they don't wanna know. Right? They they have a base, and they don't wanna learn. And that and that's the sad part is when you when you have a fixed decision on what you perceive law enforcement is and you're not willing to change, everybody's opinion can change.
Bert Eyler:It's just, are you willing to go out there and learn and not just take the media's word for it? Go out and learn. Talk to the officers. Where I'm from and where I'm living now here in Virginia, great support from, you know, the citizens of of the community. And, you know, they do a lot of stuff for them, especially the holidays, police week.
Bert Eyler:So, you know, I think it comes down to the community and and community relations. If you have a good relationship, everything is gonna be fine. But you have some places where it's not, you try to bridge that gap, and sometimes it doesn't happen. And I you know, a lot of it is, you know, like you said, the politicians and and is the driving force to that.
Betsy Smith:Well and we're in an atmosphere now. I mean, we've had a big, obviously, big sea change since November where, you know, really, the American public, one of the reasons that they, overwhelmingly elected Donald Trump was because they were tired of crime. You know? They're tired of I live now in Southern Arizona. And, you know, the fentanyl and the illegal immigration and and, and all of that, you know, so much of that leads to crime and shootings and things that, you know, we didn't have here, you know, five or six years ago.
Betsy Smith:And, people are tired of being crime victims. And I know in the District Of Columbia where these legislators, you know, live at least part of the year, the crime has been off the hook. And, the you know? And and coupled with that is the constant, until recently, vilification of, the DC Metro Police Department. Do do those legislators that you, speak of, do they do they see that?
Betsy Smith:Do they do they
Bert Eyler:I think the majority yeah. I think the majority of the ones that we're talking to, they do see that. And I think you you hit you hit a good point is, you know, you have a lot of crime, and I know some of these places, you know, states are saying, well, our crime went down. Their crime went down because it's not being reported because they know that no one's gonna come for certain crimes or takes three or four hours to get there. And that's that's because of, you know, defunding the police.
Bert Eyler:When you've, over the past years, taken the money away, you don't have the officers. You know, law enforcement, you get into it because you wanna help people. You wanna make your community safe, and we're not, I think, nationwide, we're not allowing these officers to go do their job. And, you know, I have always said it's being a police officer is is not all roses and daisies. You're gonna have use of forces.
Bert Eyler:You're gonna have shootings. But the big question is, was it justified? If it's justified, then you clear the case and you move on. You know? That's the biggest thing, and you have all these cases that have dragged out for so long.
Bert Eyler:We have cases with our other organization that these cases have been going on five, six years, and they still haven't gone to trial yet.
Betsy Smith:Well, let's let's talk about that, the National Center for Police Defense. Because, you know, one of the things and and, you know, I travel all over this country and talk to cops. And, you know, one of the big conversations, of course, is police officer mental health. And and these officers all over the country say it's not the shooting. It's not having to shoot somebody that is the big issue mentally.
Betsy Smith:It's what occurs after the way the agency treated me, the the way that the prosecutors treat me. We we have all these Soros installed prosecutors around the country that have made it their life's work, it seems, to try and put good cops in prison. Talk about what you guys are doing on that side of things.
Bert Eyler:Well, yeah. With with, National Center for Police Defense, we're helping we currently have 10 officers that we're helping. Surprisingly, the most officers right now are are in Austin, Texas, which you would you would not think that that was that, would be that way, but it is.
Betsy Smith:Travis County for people who don't know, Travis County, Texas has probably one of the top four most far left anti cop prosecutors in this country.
Bert Eyler:Yes. DA Garza. It's it's it's unbelievable. He originally during the, George Floyd riots, he indicted, 21 officers for the riots in Austin. And then beginning of his election, last year, he dropped 17 of those.
Bert Eyler:And these are these are officers that have were under fire, basically, rocks, frozen water bottles, setting stuff on fire, and they use their tools to push them back, mainly the, their less lethal beanbag rounds, and they were criminally charged for using them. It it it and we're helping them. We have one officer in Austin, Daniel Sanchez, sadly had to shoot an individual that was shooting into his own house with a rifle. And he gave him commands. He didn't listen, and he sadly had to shoot him.
Bert Eyler:And he passed you know, he died there at the scene, but and Daniel Sanchez is now being criminally charged. Right? And when people watch the video, even when I watch the video, the body cam, you can hear the gunshots as they're pulling up in the cruiser. So why is he being criminally charged? It's it's it's flabbergasting to me, and he still has, you know, several officers that he's criminally charged for the riots that are just now starting to come to trial after five years.
Bert Eyler:It's it's it's crazy why this is going on.
Betsy Smith:And during that time period, these officers, they can't work. Right? They're not, you know, most of them are not working. Correct? Because they've been
Bert Eyler:Most of them most of them are just, on administrative leave. You know, some of them had to go find new jobs. I mean, they they they have to work. They have to provide for their family. And that that's the sad part is they got into the profession just like myself, you know, driven by, public service, and they go out there, and this is what happens to them.
Bert Eyler:And from what I understand, he also you know, DA Garza ran on that transparency that he was gonna go after these officers. And I know governor Abbott, he you know, until everything goes through, whether he's able to pardon them or not, but it has to go through the process. And I'm a firm believer the process is the punishment because this has been going on for some of these guys for five years. They they can't get promotions. They can't move on.
Bert Eyler:Some of them had to go get other jobs, you know, to support the family, and that's the issue. You know? When is this gonna stop?
Betsy Smith:And and the the, effect on the Austin community, these cases, when when you for people who've never been to Austin, Texas, 6 Short Years ago, you could go and stay at a hotel and walk any pretty much anywhere you wanted. Downtown, they had a great music scene, all of that. That has changed a lot. Crime is up in Austin. Their homelessness, their their drug dealing, you know, all that stuff.
Betsy Smith:And, their their police department is woefully short staffed. And, the citizens are less less safe, aren't they?
Bert Eyler:Oh, yes. They are. I believe they're somewhere between three and five hundred officers down.
Betsy Smith:It's extraordinary.
Bert Eyler:You know, with with with that being said is, you know, you have a lot of good officers. Like, you know, why do why would you wanna go to Austin to be a police officer knowing that you have all these officers doing their job the way they've been trained on trial? It it's to me, it's it's it's asinine. It needs to stop. And the only one of the ways we can do it is get them out of office.
Bert Eyler:But it it's hard because we tried to we helped, with police officers defense coalition to help, you know, promote, individual that was running against him who was a moderate Democrat, and he lost in the primary. So it also comes down to the people of Austin or the people anywhere. You know? Minneapolis, all these you know, Chicago is getting out there and voting the right people in. You know?
Bert Eyler:It's all about justice is about being firm but fair. And without law and order, you have chaos, and you can see the cities that have chaos. You've got to allow the officers to do their job, to go out and chase the bat, the worst of the worst, and get them locked up and make the city safe. You make the city safe, you're gonna get more people to come in because, you know, I've gone down there for, for some of the trials. It's such a beautiful city.
Bert Eyler:The history of Austin is unbelievable. You know? You got, you know, University of Texas. It's just it's a gorgeous place. But you're right.
Bert Eyler:There's certain areas that's getting worse and worse, and that that's because of, you know, DA Garza not prosecuting anybody.
Betsy Smith:And I don't know that the public really realizes that they have the power to change this. You know? You know, we just had a huge election, you know, last November, and everybody was all eating up with who was gonna be president and all that. And yet we had all these prosecutorial races around the country, and, and they largely, in these big blue cities, and counties, went to the Democrats. Democrats that were not pro law enforcement, not pro law and order.
Betsy Smith:Again, that's changing, but folks need to understand that they need to vote down ballot. They need to understand who they're voting for because the police can arrest we can arrest everybody on the planet, but if there's no one that will prosecute the actual criminals and indeed are focused on prosecuting the police, that's not gonna make anybody safer.
Bert Eyler:No. And you and you hit that right on the head because why should officers across the nation go put their life on the line to go after somebody, lock them up, do the job that they're supposed to do, and then get into court, and they just let it go. You know? Absolutely. I mean, but when we both were in, you know, you went out, you did your job, you were able to go to court, and, you know, they work stuff out.
Bert Eyler:You know, like I said before, firm but fair. You may you you guys, you know, make that decision. You know? Lesser charge, greater charge. Does it should it stand to, you know, take it all the way through to the to the jury?
Bert Eyler:You know? But that's the decision of the court. Our job as law enforcement, uphold the law, get it to to court, and then the court decides what they wanna do from that point on. And that's the scary part because they're constantly letting them all out. And you can see that you can see that nationwide.
Betsy Smith:Yeah. Yeah. It's so well said. Bert, you guys are doing incredible work. Tell people where they can find you, find the organization, and how they can help out.
Bert Eyler:Sure. You can go to ww.policeofficersdefensecoalition.com. That's our website. You can also donate from there. We have all our information there.
Bert Eyler:If any of anybody is interested on what their representative is doing and how they're, you know, voting on law enforcement legislation, we do have a scorecard that lists all the pro law enforcement legislation and how they voted. I know we have a lot of new freshman representatives. So as of right now, you know, there's not a, you know, a percentage for them. It's all based on the last two years of the voting. So we got some great great individuals up there.
Bert Eyler:If anybody would like to help with, the officers, you can go to www.nationalcenterforpolicedefense.com, and you can see all our cases on there, how we're helping. We do blogs. We do a lot of stuff, you know, just to to support law enforcement. And that's how your your viewers can help us out. If they have any questions, they can also send us, an email.
Bert Eyler:We have info@policeofficersdefensecoalition and info@nationalcenterforpolicedefense.com. If they have any questions, they can just reach out to us, and we'll get back to them.
Betsy Smith:I love it. We're so happy to be able to partner with you guys on the legislative side and and promote the great work that you're doing for wrongfully, prosecuted and persecuted police officers. Bert, thanks so much for spending time with us.
Bert Eyler:Thank you very much for having me.
Betsy Smith:Yeah. I'm so excited to to get to talk to you. And if you would like more information about the National Police Association, visit us at nationalpolice.org.
Narrator:Every day, the brave men and women of law enforcement put their lives on the line to keep us safe. But they need our help to continue their mission. Activist politicians, progressive prosecutors, the ACLU, and the rest of the anti police forces receive millions in donations from extremist pro criminal elements like George Soros and woke corporations. The National Police Association is fighting them in courts around the country, including The United States Supreme Court, defending officers who are being attacked for doing their jobs. Additionally, the National Police Association works year round to pass tough on crime legislation to put and keep criminals behind bars.
Narrator:Consider going to nationalpolice.org and donating to keep us in the fight. Together, we can win. That is nationalpolice.org.
